Combat System

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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:07 am

Saint Jiub wrote:Well, if we're doing base 10, then how about
1-2 body
3 legs
4 arms
5 head

(or for those who can't divide by two...)

1-4 body
5-6 legs
7-8 arms
9-10 head

Or, hell, even
1-5 body
5-7 legs
8-9 arms
10 head


There are a few ways you can do this and the choice... is... yours...

Right, it probably is a good idea to stick with d10s. Anyway I like options 1&2 better than option 3, so my vote goes to that.

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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:10 am

Option 1 and 2 are the same thing...

I still stand by 3. This is only for critical hits, right? Or all attacks?

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Post  Saint Jiub on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:13 am

Rainbay wrote:Option 1 and 2 are the same thing...

I still stand by 3. This is only for critical hits, right? Or all attacks?

Crits only. And I put option 1 and 2 separately because some people might prefer to just avoid using the "d5" altogether. I guess we'll see as the game develops
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Post  LessRudeScrib on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:25 am

I like option 3 the best.
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Post  Slotha Sil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:00 am

I like the third option as well. However, it kind of bugs me that this whole ordeal serves only to make critical hits something extra special. With the whole piecemeal armor thing going in the video game, wouldn't it be better to use it for all attacks (rolling a third d10 isn't a big problem), while criticals represent just hitting weak spots in someone's defense (extra damage)?
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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:33 am

I'm for it if other people are. It makes having good armor all around much better. Otherwise, you could just pimp out with the massive defences of say, dragonbone cuirass (+100 in game) and have most damage negated. If we add in one more die, it would still take most of the blows, just not all of them.

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Post  Dagoth Durr on Fri Mar 05, 2010 8:49 am

I tend to agree with Slotha Sil.
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Post  Saint Jiub on Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:44 am

Now that you mention it, that does make sense... but how do we determine dodge? Do we wanna do it separately for each body part (so if you're mixing heavy and light, it's easier to dodge a leg shot where you've got chitin than a torso shot where you've got steel?)
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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 9:55 am

Well, if we go with making some armor better than others, then we'd have to show that some how with different body parts. Though on the otherhand, it could be used to help make sure people stick mostly to one type of armor; wearing a heavy cuirass makes you less able to dodge hits to any part of the body, perhaps? Although that does sound like it could be difficult to calculate, so perhaps we should just let each body part retain it's own dodge rating based on it's own armor.

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Post  Slotha Sil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 11:19 am

We'll know defense and damage reduction for each kind of armor, won't we? Once the scatter die tells us where the attack (theoretically) connects, we look up defense and damage reduction for armor equipped at that location. The penalties suffered for wearing armor could be a tad more complex to calculate, but nothing terrible. Your overall dodge penalty will be the average penalty of all the pieces of armor you wear, so someone who only has a breastplate will dodge more easily than someone decked out in a full suit. Penalty for casting will come from gloves and pauldrons, penalty to movement speed and jumping from boots and greaves. A silhouette with stat boxes located over appropriate regions could make all of this more intuitive than it sounds when compressed in a wall of text.

The next logical step would be implementation of tiny pictures of weapons and armor that we can glue over the paper doll, just like in the vidya.
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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:23 pm

While I do prefer the called shot/crits system over the random hit system, I have to admit that random every time is much truer to the game and is certainly workable. If we do get stuck up on this, we could always make a thread on /tg/ for more input.

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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:28 pm

GLIPP wrote:While I do prefer the called shot/crits system over the random hit system, I have to admit that random every time is much truer to the game and is certainly workable. If we do get stuck up on this, we could always make a thread on /tg/ for more input.

Perhaps one of the perks of greater skill level would be the ability to make a called shot, in the attempt to purposely cripple a body part somehow? Doing so would inflict a penalty to your roll, so you can try to make a headshot everytime, but the odds are lower than just if you were to attack them at random.

How about a called shot gives you double the chance to hit that bodypart, but on all other rolls you miss. So say you have on a normal die 1, 2, 3 and 4 being torso hits on a normal roll. On a called shot it becomes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. But if you roll a 9 or 10, the attack automatically misses regardless of your other rolls?

We'd have to establish some sort of bonus for attempting to damage just one part of the enemies body for this to even mean anything, of course, besides the fast that some of them might be less armored than others.

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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:35 pm

I think the cool effects should be saved for critical hits myself. Called shot should be made at a set penalty to hit, and should offer no other effects than striking a less armored body-part, just as if the d10 had come up arms.

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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:41 pm

GLIPP wrote:I think the cool effects should be saved for critical hits myself. Called shot should be made at a set penalty to hit, and should offer no other effects than striking a less armored body-part, just as if the d10 had come up arms.

Sounds good. The bonuses thing prolly comes form me spending too much time playing fallout... The ability to hit an enemy where they can't take a hit seems like bonus enough, you're right.


Last edited by Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:41 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post  Slotha Sil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:41 pm

Rainbay wrote:
We'd have to establish some sort of bonus for attempting to damage just one part of the enemies body for this to even mean anything, of course, besides the fast that some of them might be less armored than others.

We already know you have to roll 10 on d10 to hit the head. That's 10% chance. Or 90% bonus to defense for that attack. I don't think how that will work out when all the other numbers are in place, but it's an easy way to do called shots. Instead of rolling for random location, you attack specific body part against increased defense, if you miss you miss, if you hit you got what you were after. A good tactic for high-speed dual-wielding dagger lunatics.
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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:45 pm

Actually, in the way I described it, a called shot doubles your chance of hitting that specific body part on a roll. So a called shot to the head would have 20% chance of success, with an 80% chance of missing completely. A called body shot has an 80% chance of success, with a 20% chance of missing completely. On successes however, you still have to calculate based on the other dice rolled if the successful called shot actually hit them because of their defences and such.

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Post  Slotha Sil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 12:53 pm

Rainbay wrote:Actually, in the way I described it, a called shot doubles your chance of hitting that specific body part on a roll. So a called shot to the head would have 20% chance of success, with an 80% chance of missing completely. A called body shot has an 80% chance of success, with a 20% chance of missing completely. On successes however, you still have to calculate based on the other dice rolled if the successful called shot actually hit them because of their defences and such.

Couldn't the doubled hit chance be converted into halved penalty (20% chance ->45% bonus) and just factored in as bonus to defense of targeted part, instead of making yet another roll? Between attack, damage, location, dodge and block, we don't need additional rolls. In fact, we ought to work on reducing that number...
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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:02 pm

The problem with that is the risk vs reward. Taking a 45% penalty just to hit something a little less armored is not worth even including into the game. The penalty should be universal for all areas, and much more moderate. That said, there's no use getting numbers down until the play-testing phase. For now, all we should decide on is attack penalty or d10, and my vote is for attack penalty.

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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:06 pm

It wouldn't be another roll, called shots would count as the location roll, although I do agree we seem to have to many rolls already.Things are getting messy. So attack penalty it is, although 45% seems pretty high chance of missing, but the head is pretty hard to strike. It would be more reasonable for striking other areas of the body, such as the arms or legs. Called shots probably wouldn't come up much, but it is always nice to have more options.

So I do agree on the attack penalty is what I'm saying.

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Post  Slotha Sil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:14 pm

GLIPP wrote:The problem with that is the risk vs reward. Taking a 45% penalty just to hit something a little less armored is not worth even including into the game. The penalty should be universal for all areas, and much more moderate. That said, there's no use getting numbers down until the play-testing phase. For now, all we should decide on is attack penalty or d10, and my vote is for attack penalty.

Head=auto critical maybe?

There is no point to called shot system if attacks to areas other than torso and upper legs do nothing special anyway, so we might just as well abandon it.
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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:21 pm

Slotha Sil wrote:

Head=auto critical maybe?

There is no point to called shot system if attacks to areas other than torso and upper legs do nothing special anyway, so we might just as well abandon it.

The point is for it to work with the modular armor system. I'd like this system to be a way to attack less defended body-parts, nothing more. Personally, I'd be happy if we did away with modular armor and the called shot system altogether, as it is too much to keep track of in my opinion.

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Post  Slotha Sil on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:33 pm

GLIPP wrote:
The point is for it to work with the modular armor system. I'd like this system to be a way to attack less defended body-parts, nothing more. Personally, I'd be happy if we did away with modular armor and the called shot system altogether, as it is too much to keep track of in my opinion.

Abandoning it altogether would not mean abandoning the modular armor system. We'd just calculate mean defense and DR. So, you could get more speed by leaving out parts of your ebony suit, but your total defense and DR will be lower.

I'll admit that I was worried that called shots would turn this into Fallout: Crit to the Eyes 4.
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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:35 pm

I really don't like mean armor. It's too much calculation, and too illogical.

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Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:41 pm

It could have a use, if an enemy is well armored on a certain part of their body. I recall one of the last quests in the Imperial Legion faction in Morrowind had you fight a bad legion member who had stolen and was wearing the Lord's mail. That cuirass gives 100 cock sucking defence. Having most of your attacks hit that wouldn't be very useful. But he also only had normal crummy imperial legion armor on his arms, and wasn't even wearing a helmet! So a called shot to the head or arms might be worth it in cases like this.

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Post  GLIPP on Fri Mar 05, 2010 1:45 pm

Rainbay wrote:And as was suggested, we could make a successful called shot have bonuses. Called arm shot could disarm the enemy, called leg shot could knock them down and have them lose an action.

I still think those effects should be reserved for critical hits. Not only do I think crits should be special, but, as Slotha Sil said, I don't want to see people making called shots every single round because they're blatantly overpowered. Like they are in every other game with called shots ever.

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