Skill synergy bonuses

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  LessRudeScrib on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:00 pm

Yeah, but even the quishies of days past got to roll a d4 every level. If your build doesn't use any END-based stats, you stay stuck low forever.

Which might not be a bad thing, but something to keep in mind.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:01 pm

We could always bring back levels and return hp to endurance/10 + per level.

EDIT: this is having less and less to do with skill synergy, isn't it?

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  LessRudeScrib on Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:02 pm

Yeah, that's my fault, sorry.
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Let's start Synergizing

Post  LessRudeScrib on Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:42 pm

Mysticism
Illusion
Restoration
Conjuration
Alteration
Destruction
Enchant
Alchemy
Thaumaturgy (for making custom spells)
Stealth
Security
Backstab
Short Blade
Archery
Crossbow
Thrown
Hand-to-Hand
Unarmored
Acrobatics
Axe
Blunt
Spear
Etiquette
Streetwise
Mercantile
Long Blade
Armorer
Athletics
Block
Heavy Armor
Medium Armor
Light Armor
Medicine
Survival

This looks like the working list of skills. How do we synergize them?
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Fri Mar 05, 2010 10:54 pm

Perhaps remove survival so there is only 33 of them, then divide them up into groups of 3 each? Or perhaps leave survival in and divide them up into groups of two.

EDIT: Pole-arm, not spear.

If it is groups of 2, Enchant and Thaumaturgy should go together, if groups of 3 perhaps add in mysticism or alchemy as well.

If groups of 2, light armor and unarmored go together with medium and heavy armor going together. If 3, all the armors go together, with unarmored going with the same group as hand to hand and athletics or acrobatics, I suppose.

If groups of 2, axes and blunt. If groups of three, throw in pole arms as well.

If groups of 2, crossbows and archery. If groups of 3, add in derp. I mean Thrown.

If groups of 2, Etiquette and Streetwise. If groups of 3, mercantile as well. Perhaps Mercantile and Etiquette for groups of 2, and have streetwise go somewhere else, possibly with survival even.

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  LessRudeScrib on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:27 am

I could see alternate groups of 3, though. Heavy armor, medium armor and block. Light armor, unarmored, hand to hand, like that.

So, do we want to try a system that's 2 skills syngergize more strongly, or 3 skills synergize, but not as strong?
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:53 am

Subtle magicka -
Mysticism
Illusion
Restoration

Gross Magicka -
Conjuration
Alteration
Destruction

Magic-crafting -
Enchant
Alchemy
Armorer

Crime -
Stealth
Security
Backstab

Marksmanship -
Archery
Crossbow
Thrown

Martial arts -
Hand-to-Hand
Unarmored
Acrobatics

Brute weapons -
Axe
Blunt
Polearm

Finesse weapons -
Long Blade
Short Blade
Block

Speechcraft -
Etiquette
Streetwise
Mercantile

Armor -
Heavy Armor
Medium Armor
Light Armor

Adventuring -
Athletics
Medicine
Survival[edit]
Or maybe drop the Survival skill (just use an attribute roll or something for surviving in the wild) and throw Armorer in there, since field maintenance is important for adventurers?


Last edited by Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:01 am

What would the survival skill do exactly? If it isn't important, we could drop that and rearrange the list a little.

Move acrobatics to adventure.
Move light armor to martial arts.
Move armorer to the armor section.

Of course, this isn't perfect.

If we return necromancy and add it to the magic-crafting group instead of having it be "prestige", we could move alchemy to a group with armorer and perhaps add one more thing to make crafting skills more based with "things" since alchemy is mixing regents together, basically chemistry.

We could also remove Thaumaturgy and make IT a prestige skill allowing people to make spells anytime, anywhere. Perhaps add it as a bonus for joining the mage's guild or house telvanni or the temple even after you reach a certain rank. Until then you'll just have to pay someone to make the spell for you. We could then add in armorer with the other two crafting skills and just make them crafting. Afterall, enchant has to deal with knowing armor and weapons similar to armorer does, only in a magical instead of physical sense.

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:08 am

Rainbay wrote:What would the survival skill do exactly? If it isn't important, we could drop that and rearrange the list a little.

Move acrobatics to adventure.
Move light armor to martial arts.
Move armorer to the armor section.

Of course, this isn't perfect.

If we return necromancy and add it to the magic-crafting group instead of having it be "prestige", we could move alchemy to a group with armorer and perhaps add one more thing to make crafting skills more based with "things" since alchemy is mixing regents together, basically chemistry.

We could also remove Thaumaturgy and make IT a prestige skill allowing people to make spells anytime, anywhere. Perhaps add it as a bonus for joining the mage's guild or house telvanni or the temple even after you reach a certain rank. Until then you'll just have to pay someone to make the spell for you. We could then add in armorer with the other two crafting skills and just make them crafting. Afterall, enchant has to deal with knowing armor and weapons similar to armorer does, only in a magical instead of physical sense.

My reasoning for Acrobatics being in the Martial Arts category is it feels like something that you'd naturally get better at if you spend all your time performing flying kicks and dodging fifteen akaviri swordsmen at once. Acrobatics, Unarmed, and Unarmored to me just screams KUNG FU MOVIE STAR. I like all the armors together because, despite the differences, armor is armor. If you're comfortable with chitin, you might not like how much Iron weighs, but you'll be better suited to wear it. Armorer, on the other hand, doesn't seem to fit that synergy. Yes, I can make a shield, but what does that have to do with protecting myself in the heat of battle?

I'm not trying to shoot your ideas down completely here, and I will of course bow to the majority, whichever way it sways. But I feel like the layout I proposed does a pretty solid job of grouping skills by similarity of application rather than by what class is most likely to use them.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:11 am

No No, I disliked having to move acrobatics, which is why I came up with the other options. I feel acrobatics does belong with the martial arts if at all possible. The making thaumaturgy a prestige skill sounds like the best option I'd say.

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:15 am

Removed Thaumaturgy from the main skill list. While I'm thinking about it, why don't we go ahead and list prestige skills we'd like to see?

Thaumaturgy
Magic Shouting (forget what it's called)
Necromancy

More ideas have been thrown out in various threads, but I can't really be arsed to find them at the moment. So if you want to suggest prestige skills (which we should really call something else, because we're already using skill synergy and if we steal too many terms from D&D the lawyers are gonna come knocking at our doors...) go ahead and post your ideas here.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:18 am

How about these two:
Mounted combat
Shapeshifting

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  LessRudeScrib on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:25 am

After trying to make a 2-to-a-category list, I really think three works better for organizing them. With two you're leaving things out and then creating completely arbitrary ones otherwise.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:42 am

Geomancy was meantioned too, but I don't know how it would be applied.
Some kind of "Technomancy" derived from dwemer technology might work as well. Where instead of raising the dead like in necromancy, you are raising a golem.

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:12 am

Technomancy seems like it might be handled in a similar way to Necromancy. Yes, Necromancy is a skill, but in practice you need to combine it with Conjuration, Enchant, and similar. Technomancy, or Dwemer Forging, or whatever you wants to call it, would probably combine Alteration, Armorer, and Enchantment.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:14 am

I was thinking we were focusing mostly on magics and crafts and magic crafts.

So how about DUEL WEILDING
Allowing players to forgo a shield or twohanded weapon to strike out with two weapons at a time.

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:19 am

I'd rather the game not devolve into a race to see who creates the first dunmer with long blades, dual wield, stealth, light armor, and an enchanted item of Conjure Panther (2 hours)...
but I suppose we'll have a fookin riot on our hands if we disallow dual wieldan altogether.
I dunno if that's a separate skill though. Maybe make dual wield a skill perk or something? Or say if you're dual wielding you suffer -25% to your weapon skill (bumping it down one perk level as well)?
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:21 am

I can honestly say the whole "dunmer duel weilding etc." thing never occured to me. I wish it still hadn't, but after reading your post it is too late for that.
Well, if mounted combat is seen as a prestige skill, I think duel weilding should be too? It's hard to come up with more melee related prestige skill, since magic is so fantastical.

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:27 am

Well, that's where we can start thinking about the unique fighting styles of Tamriel. Akaviri sword-saints, Imperial legion tactics that gain bonuses from fighting side-by-side, or Redguards kickin ass the way they do.

In fact, I think a LOT of our prestige skills (which I'm going to start calling ADVANCED SKILLS so we can get rid of the word Prestige) will be based on getting training from specific groups. The Telvannis can tell you how to Mushroomcraft, but only the Legion will teach you the spear-and-shield phalanx tactics that makes them such a powerful force.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:32 am

Oh thank good, I hate the name prestige. ADVANCED SKILLS is much better. The issue with the whole phalanx fighting thing is that it seems more of a technique, to add a bonus in a certain circumstance, than a multiuse skill to be trained. Perhaps have it allow you to use a spear and a shield at the same time, where spears were normally two handed weapons.

I do agree about recieving the ADVANCED SKILLS as training from different groups, so you have to "unlock" them.

So much for me going to bed, it seems.

P.S.: Skill technique: dragoon style mix of acrobatics and weapons, allowing for jumping height and distance to factor into damage!

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 2:39 am

Wait, were you also delaying going to bed until I shut my whore mouth? 'cause I was waiting to go to bed 'til you shut YOUR whore mouth. So maybe we should shut our respective whore mouths and come at this with fresh heads tomorrow?

I was thinking Phalanx skill would let you fight cooperatively (sharing shield bonuses, providing frontline defense while your phalanx partner provides spear-flavored death to your foes)
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Slotha Sil on Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:46 am

Concerning dual-wielding. How do we treat it? Hassan Chop with two weapons instead of one, or the real world dueling techniques where the off-hand weapon was used for disarming and parrying? Also shield bashing (that big knob at the centre of roman shields wasn't ornamental, it was abdominal) and the sick things you can do with staff and spear. Opening the can of worms fills my mind with shadows.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Outlander on Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:50 am

Might I suggest that we call the core skills "Proficiencies", and the ADVANCED SKILLS just "Skills", or viceversa?

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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Saint Jiub on Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:28 am

I love that eveeryone is using my capslocked blue version of ADVANCED SKILLS. The semantics don't really matter to me, but I think the basic skills should be called skills, just 'cause that's what they are in TES.
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Re: Skill synergy bonuses

Post  Rainbay on Sat Mar 06, 2010 11:49 am

Outlander wrote:Might I suggest that we call the core skills "Proficiencies", and the ADVANCED SKILLS just "Skills", or viceversa?

I think the normal skills should remain just called skills, it makes it less confusing and easier to understand, especially when starting. And ADVANCED SKILLS is pretty easy to grasp concept. They are SKILLS that function differently and have to be unlocked, because they are ADVANCED.

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