How to handle Races

I can't believe we've not started a thread dedicated to this yet! How much do we want race to influence character stats and such? Do we want to have races with big impacts to skills and attributes, or do we want to minimize it to a couple +5s here and there, a couple -5s somewhere else, and let the actual skill selection do most of the attribute-changing?
I'll try to remember to come onto this site tomorrow and post some relevant stuff from the UESP to give us an idea of what we might be working with.

I actually like the way the games handle it. A few +10/-10 to stats and skills, but made unique by nifty race specific powers, like Dark Elves being resistant to fire and Argonians being able to hold their breath an obscenely long period of time.

Yeah, unless after playtesting the race bonuses skew things too much (they shouldn't but we should polish everything for it's own sake).

Maybe we can add some other little bonuses besides skill bonuses and powers (things like khajiit can water breathe for a long time is still a general spell, despite being a "power"). Something truly race-specific.

Like... Khajiit can do some kind of special pounce attack. Or Redguard get bonuses to theft *trollface*

Idea for khajiit: you can take a family member with you! Khajiit take a radically different morphology at birth based on the phases of the moons. So Bob'ay the Khajiit can bring along his uncle the sapient house cat with him.

Of course we'd probably have to restrict taking the nastier stuff like senche tigers.

Well, we shouldn't restrict it, per se. We should include the rules and then notify players/Scrollkeepers that such a relative might unbalance the game (or bring the focus much more to bear on one person, who happens to have a badass tiger friend)

UESP has this to say about races (ranked in order of the priority I think they deserve) -
Morrowind basic doober:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Races

Oblivion basic doober:
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Races

Daggerfall basic doober
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Races

I'll be making a post for each individual race next.

Khajit goes here

Khajit in Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Agi
-10 WP, End
Female:
+10 Agi
-10 WP, Str

Skills:
Acrobatics +15
Athletics +5
Hand-to-hand +5
Light Armor +5
Security +5
Short Blade +5
Sneak +5

Traits:
Night Eye 50 pts 30 sec self
Demoralize Humanoid 100 pts 30 sec target

In Daggerfall:

Male:
-10 Endurance
+10 Willpower
+10 Agility
Female:
-10 Luck

In Oblivion:
Male
+10 Agility
-10 Willpower and Endurance

Female
+10 Agility
-10 Willpower and Strength

Skills
+10 Acrobatics and Hand to Hand
+5 Athletics, Blade, Light Armor, Security, and Sneak

Traits
Eye of Fear greater power: Demoralize up to level 25 30 seconds Target
Eye of Night lesser power: Night-Eye 30 seconds Self

Khajit will be tricky, because the previously mentioned morphology forces us to decide which types to stat out, or whether we stat out numerous different breeds.

Argonian goes here

Argonians in Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Agi, Spd
-10 WP, End, Per
Female:
+10 Int
-10 End, Per

Skills:
Alchemy +5
Athletics +15
Illusion +5
Medium Armor +5
Mysticism +5
Spear +5
Unarmored +5

Traits:
Resist Poison 100
Resist Common Disease 75
Water Breathing 120 secs self

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Agi
+10 Spd
-10 End
Female:
+10 Str
-10 End

In Oblivion:
Male
+10 Agi, Spd
-10 WP, End, Per
Female
+10 Int
-10 End, Per

Skills
+10 Athletics and Security
+5 Alchemy, Blade, Hand to Hand, Illusion, and Mysticism

Traits
Resist Poison 100
Resist Common Disease 75
Water Breathing constant self

Dunmer goes here
Male:
+10 Spd
-10 Per, WP
Female
+10 Spd
-10 Str, WP

Skills:
Long Blade +5
Destruction +10
Light Armor +5
Athletics +5
Mysticism +5
Marksman +5
Short Blade +10

Traits
Resist Fire 75%
Sanctuary 50 pts. self 60 sec

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Strength
+10 Intelligence
-10 Willpower
-10 Personality
Female:
+10 Intelligence
-10 Willpower

In Oblivion:
Male:
-10 Per
+10 Spd
Female:
-10 End
+10 Spd

Skills:
Athletics +5
Blade +10
Blunt +5
Destruction +10
Light Armor +5
Marksman +5
Mysticism +5

Traits:
Summon Ancestor Guardian 60 secs
Resist Fire 75%

Bosmer goes here
In Morrowind:
Male:
-10 Str, WP, End
+10 Agi, Spd
Female:
-10 Str, WP, End
+10 Agi, Spd

Skills:
Marksman +15
Sneak +10
Light Armor +10
Alchemy +5
Acrobatics +5

Traits:
Resist Common Disease 75%
Charm Animal 5 600 sec Target

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Agi, Spd
-10 Lck, End
Female:
N/A

In Oblivion:
Male:
-10 Str, WP, Per
+10 Agi, Spd
Female:
-10 Str, WP, End
+10 Agi, Spd

Skills:
+10 Alchemy, Marksman, and Sneak
+5 Acrobatics, Alteration, and Light Armor

Abilities:
Command Creature level 5 60 sec Target
Resist Common Disease 75%

Altmer goes here
In Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Int
-10 Str, Spd
Female:
+10 Int
-10 Str, End

Skills:
Destruction +10
Enchant +10
Alchemy +10
Alteration +5
Conjuration +5
Illusion +5

Traits:
Resist Common Disease 75%
Weak Frost, Shock 25%
Weak Fire, Magicka 50%
+150% Magicka

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Int, WP
-10 Str, End
Female:
+10 Int, Per
-10 Str, End
In Oblivion:
Male:
+10 Int
-10 Str, Spd
Female:
+10 Int
-10 Str, End

Skills:
+10 Alteration, Destruction, and Mysticism
+5 Alchemy, Conjuration, and Illusion

Abilities:
Resist Disease 75%
Weak Shock, Frost, Fire 25%
+100 Magicka

Orismer (Orc) goes here
In Morrowind:
Male:
+5 Str
+10 WP, End
-5 Agi
-10 Int, Spd, Per
Female:
+5 Str, WP
+10 End
-5 Agi
-10 Spd
-15 Per

Skills:
Armorer +10
Block +10
Heavy Armor +10
Medium Armor +10
Axe +5

Traits:
Resist Magicka 25%
Berserk 20 Health, 200 Fatigue, 100 Attack, -100 Agi 60 sec

In Daggerfall:
Orcs are not a playable race in Daggerfall

In Oblivion:
Male:
+10 WP and End
+5 Str
-10 Int, Spd, Per
-5 Agi
Female:
+5 Str, WP
+10 End
-5 Agi
-10 Spd
-15 Per

Skills:
+10 Armorer, Block, Blunt, and Heavy Armor
+5 Hand to Hand

Abilities:
Resist Magicka 25%
Berserk 20 Health, 200 Fatigue, 50 Str, -100 Agi 60 sec

Breton goes here
In Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Int and WP
-10 Agi, Spd, and End
Female:
+10 Int and WP
-10 Agi, Str, and End

Skills:
Conjuration +10
Mysticism +10
Restoration +10
Alchemy +5
Alteration +5
Illusion +5

Traits:
Shield 50 pts self 60 sec
Resist Magicka 50
+50% Magicka

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Int, WP
-10 Str, End
Female:
+10 Int, WP
-10 Str, End

In Oblivion:
Male:
+10 Int and WP
-10 Agi, Spd, and End
Female:
+10 Int and WP
-10 Agi, Str, and End

Skills:
+10 Conjuration, Mysticism, and Restoration
+5 Alchemy, Alteration, and Illusion

Abilities:
Shield 50 self 60 sec
Resist Magicka 50%
+50 Magicka

Nord goes here

In Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Str, End
-10 Int, Agi, Per
Female:
+10 Str, WP
-10 Int, Agi, Per

Skills:
Axe +10
Blunt Weapon +10
Medium Armor +10
Heavy Armor +5
Long Blade +5
Spear +5

Traits:
Resist Shock 50%
Resist Frost 100%
Shield 30 self 60 sec
Frost Damage 25 touch

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Str, End
-10 Int, WP, Agi
Female:
+10 Lck
-10 Int

In Oblivion:
Male:
+10 Str, End
-10 Int, Per, WP

Female:
+10 Str
-10 Int, Per

Skills:
+10 Blade, Blunt, and Heavy Armor
+5 Armorer, Block, and Restoration


Abilities:
Resist Frost 50%
Shield 30 self 60 sec
Frost Damage 50 Touch

Redguard goes here

In Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Str, End
-10 Int, WP, Per
Female:
+10 End
-10 Int, WP

Skills:
Long Blade +15
Athletics +5
Axe +5
Blunt Weapon +5
Heavy Armor +5
Medium Armor +5
Short Blade +5

Traits:
Adrenaline Rush - +50 Agi, Spd, End, Str, +25 HP self 60 sec
Resist Poison 75%
Resist Common Disease 75%

In Daggerfall:
Male:
+10 Agi, Lck
-10 Int, WP, End
Female:
+10 Spd, Lck
-10 Str, Int, WP, End

In Oblivion:
Male:
+10 Str, End
-10 Int, WP, Per
Female:
+10 End
-10 Int, WP

Skills:
+10 Blade, Blunt, and Athletics
+5 Light Armor, Heavy Armor, and Mercantile

Traits:
Adrenaline Rush - +50 Agi, Spd, End, Str, +25 HP self 60 sec
Resist Poison 75%
Resist Common Disease 75%

Imperial goes here

In Morrowind:
Male:
+10 Per
-10 Agi, WP
Female:
+10 Per
-10 Agi, Spd

Skills:
Speechcraft +10
Mercantile +10
Long Blade +10
Blunt Weapon +5
Light Armor +5
Hand-to-hand +5

Traits:
Absorb Fatigue 200 target
Charm 25-50 target 15 sec

In Daggerfall:
Imperials are not playable in Daggerfall

In Oblivion:
Male:
+10 Per
-10 Agi, WP
Female:
+10 Per
-10 Agi, Spd

Skills:
+10 Mercantile, Speechcraft and Heavy Armor
+5 Blade, Blunt and Hand to Hand

Traits:
Absorb Fatigue 100 Touch
Charm 30 Target 30 sec

In conclusion:
These conclusions ignore Daggerfall, because seriously, what the fuck were they thinking? Redguards with -10 str and end?

Everybody comes out with a net -10 to their attribute total
Everybody gets a total of 45 bonus skill points
Much of the skill overlap in the games can be remedied thanks to our much larger list of skills to draw on.
Altmer are faggots.
Imperials should have Spear and Block as featured skills, since they specialize in Legion-style tactics.
Morrowind is a cook guy. Eh breathes water and doesn't afraid of anything.

Imperials use spears AND legionary tactics? That makes them either very early Roman Republic era when they still used hoplite inspired troops, or late Greek thureophoroi (think legionaries with short spears instead of swords) style in design.

Dagoth Durr wrote:Imperials use spears AND legionary tactics? That makes them either very early Roman Republic era when they still used hoplite inspired troops, or late Greek thureophoroi (think legionaries with short spears instead of swords) style in design.

First rank swords, second rank spears. It's pretty standard, I think.

Oh ok, combined arms. Very efficient. Requires lots of training, but devastating if used properly like later Swiss pikemen.

Yeah. And the back ranks were also used to hold their shields over their heads when the arrows and javelins started falling.
Yes, that's right. Hold their tower shields over their heads.
It's like a walking box of death.

I think if this gets off the ground and I can get someone to run it I'm gonna make an Imperial named Titus Pullo.

Dagoth Durr wrote:I think if this gets off the ground and I can get someone to run it I'm gonna make an Imperial named Titus Pullo.

Then I have no choice but to create a Nord named Vercingetorix. The most badass warlord of the Gallic wars, and he almost fought Caesar to a standstill.

Some skills I'd like to see for certain races, keeping in mind that while some overlap is thematically appropriate, we can spread the skill bonuses around just a little bit now. These are by no means a final list, nor are they the only skills I can imagine each race having bonuses in. They just seem like they make sense. I'll try to get at least one offensive, one defensive, and one all-purpose skill in there.

Altmer:
Conjuration
Alteration
Illusion
Mysticism
Enchantment
Etiquette

Argonian:
Polearm
Mysticism
Athletics
Survival
Medium Armor
Illusion

Bosmer:
Survival
Light Armor
Acrobatics
Archery
Short Blade
Stealth

Breton:
Restoration
Destruction
Conjuration
Alchemy
Unarmored
Medicine


Dunmer:
Destruction
Backstab
Streetwise
Short Blade
Sneak
Light Armor

Imperial:
Etiquette
Mercantile
Pole Arm
Block
Long Blade
Light Armour

Khajit:
Sneak
Security
Unarmed
Unarmored
Acrobatics
Thrown

Nord:
Blunt
Heavy Armor
Block
Restoration
Armorer
Survival

Orismer:
Axe
Medium Armor
Armorer
Crossbow
Block
Streetwise

Redguard:
Long Blade
Block
Heavy Armor
Athletics
Mercantile
Medicine

I've put the numbers together (after much not paying attention to this thread, fucking biology lab anyway, grumble grumble almost done with my associate's degree) and it looks like standard operating procedure is this:
All stats are measured from a base value of 40.
When you add all racial stat adjustments, you come out with a net loss of 10 points.
In Morrowind, you choose 2 stats to increase by 10. In Oblivion, I'm pretty sure they're increased by 5 instead. We need to decide which approach we'll use.
Most races get +10 to three skills and +5 to three others. In all cases, the total adjustments for racial skills are +45.
Racial abilities are generally one beneficial power to use on oneself and one offensive or utility power to use on enemies.